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Spider
Aug 2, 2006 2:57:44 GMT 9.5
Post by Incapability on Aug 2, 2006 2:57:44 GMT 9.5
well, perhaps he's still a child lying in his bed and dreaming ...
*rolls eyes at own unlikely theory*
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Spider
Aug 2, 2006 11:03:53 GMT 9.5
Post by Rita, Oh Yes! on Aug 2, 2006 11:03:53 GMT 9.5
Well, anything could be right with Spider. I know Natalie and I have had have had discussions before about it. Her theory is that Mrs Clegg and Yvonne were always the same person - that Spider's mother just decided to change her look and make herself more attractive for her husband, and Spider didn't take it at all well. Thought she'd turned into a different person. I think that's a hugely interesting theory.
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Spider
Aug 3, 2006 2:21:01 GMT 9.5
Post by Incapability on Aug 3, 2006 2:21:01 GMT 9.5
yes, it is. remains to consider whether Yvonne really is more attractive than Mrs Clegg. oh well, the mind of a man ...
but it's really interesting ...
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Spider
Aug 3, 2006 6:35:57 GMT 9.5
Post by helen on Aug 3, 2006 6:35:57 GMT 9.5
I must watch Spider again, I've seen it once or twice. I enjoyed it, but I was really confused at it, so I'll probably have loads of questions once I've seen it again.
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Spider
Aug 3, 2006 8:30:26 GMT 9.5
Post by Morgause on Aug 3, 2006 8:30:26 GMT 9.5
Feel free to ask! I made a Psychology work about Spider in class!
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Spider
Aug 3, 2006 17:53:33 GMT 9.5
Post by Rita, Oh Yes! on Aug 3, 2006 17:53:33 GMT 9.5
Really? Wow! I'd love to see it!
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Spider
Aug 3, 2006 17:54:51 GMT 9.5
Post by Incapability on Aug 3, 2006 17:54:51 GMT 9.5
must be great to do school work about a Miranda movie *is jealous*
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Spider
Aug 16, 2006 7:35:10 GMT 9.5
Post by helen on Aug 16, 2006 7:35:10 GMT 9.5
I've already posted this on the TV section, but Spider is on TV in the UK on Sunday 20 August on BBC2. It starts at 11.20 in Scotland and 10.50 in the rest of the UK. If any of you haven't seen it, happy watching, it's an amazing film.
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Spider
Aug 17, 2006 0:33:54 GMT 9.5
Post by himiko on Aug 17, 2006 0:33:54 GMT 9.5
If my parents don't let me watch it on holiday, I shall smite them. Lots.
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Spider
Aug 17, 2006 2:04:50 GMT 9.5
Post by Queenie on Aug 17, 2006 2:04:50 GMT 9.5
Well, anything could be right with Spider. I know Natalie and I have had have had discussions before about it. Her theory is that Mrs Clegg and Yvonne were always the same person - that Spider's mother just decided to change her look and make herself more attractive for her husband, and Spider didn't take it at all well. Thought she'd turned into a different person. I think that's a hugely interesting theory. lol well I always thought they were the same person but in Spider's mind his mum (Mrs Clegg) changed to be Yvonne when he saw her trying on the under-skirt thing! Thats a really interesting idea about her actually changing physically, I never thought of it like that! I shall be on holiday when it's on TV, but I have the dvd so it doesn't much matter!
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Spider
Aug 17, 2006 2:31:54 GMT 9.5
Post by Morgause on Aug 17, 2006 2:31:54 GMT 9.5
I have the Dvd either! Miranda looks so sweet in the interview... unfortunately she is the one who speaks less...
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Spider
Aug 29, 2006 7:50:27 GMT 9.5
Post by helen on Aug 29, 2006 7:50:27 GMT 9.5
I watched Spider when it was on TV last week. I'm a bit confused about the ending. If Mrs Clegg was the one who was pulled out of the house at the end, who was killed and buried in the allotments? Was the bit in the allotment just in Spider's imagination, and it was a part of his mother's personality that died and not the woman herself?
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Spider
Aug 29, 2006 8:14:10 GMT 9.5
Post by Kathleen on Aug 29, 2006 8:14:10 GMT 9.5
I remember seeing parts of Spider on tv once...but until I get the dvd in the mail...(between Wednesday and Friday) I won't really understand all of the story. I'm so excited!
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Spider
Aug 29, 2006 9:10:19 GMT 9.5
Post by Morgause on Aug 29, 2006 9:10:19 GMT 9.5
Well, I'm going to try to explain it to you... Hope my english is enough... sorry if it will look a big confusion... Spider always believed that his father had killed his mother and replaced her by a prostitute. But the fact is that Spider suffers from schizophrenia, the worst type of it, that is called hebephrenic (or Disorganized) schizophrenia, according to what I found when I was doing the work about the movie. People with this disease can't organize their feelings and emotions, and when it is allowed with hallucinations, it's the chaos. But Spider also has the Edipo's (or Oedipus') Complex. Edipo's Complex is natural and perfect normal in baby boys between the 3 years old and the 6 years old. During this stage, the young boys feel attracted by the parent of the opposite sex. It's a natural way to find their sexual identity. It happens the same with girls, but it's called the Electra's Complex (but it's not so strong as it is with the boys). As I said, the young boys exceed this stage at the age of 6, but sometimes it doesn't happen, which is serious. When it doesn't happens, the boy grows up with a very strong but unhealthy relationship with the mother. Usually, when they are adult, they can't stand a relationship with women because they search in them the reflect of their own mother. No one is good enough like their mother for they. But sometimes it even the worse. The boy could develop a sexual attraction to his mother and live obsessed with that, and even try to realise his fantasy. Back to Spider, he suffers from hebephrenic schizophrenia and Edipo's Complex. If you notice, the little boy is totally fascinated with his mum. You can see the way he looks to her, with totally devotion. There is a two very important scenes to understand the movie. The first one is when the boy goes to the pub and a blond woman shows her breast to him. That woman will be Yvonne. The other scene is when the boy sees her mum trying a new nightdress and she asks him if his father will like it. In this scene the boy realises that his angelic mother has another man in her life, another beside him: his own father. He can't stand that she has a sexual life, and worst, with other man. Once again it happens because of the Edipo's Complex. So, Yvonne is the junction of his two illnesses. His schizophrenia creates a new character, a tart, who "kills" her lovely mother. Yvonne represents all the sexual side of his mother, and she is based in that prostitute whom showed him her breast (it's because of that Miranda didn't play the real prostitute in the pub). All the scenes with Yvonne are a creation from Spider's mind, she never existed. But these are not the only invented scenes. Spider's fragmented mind had the necessity of create everything behind her: how and where his father knew her, how was they relationship, and the most important thing of all, how they "finished" with Spider's mother. This is real the mystery of the movie. They never killed Mrs Cleg, Spider's mind invented all of that scene as a way to justify the appearance of Yvonne, aka his mother's "bad" side. It because of it that Miranda plays Mrs Cleg and Yvonne. because they are the same person. In the end, it's Spider who kills his own mother, thinking that he is killing Yvonne. But his fragmented mine forgets it and creates all of that complicated web of false memories. Another interesting thing in the movie is the fact that is father is seen by Spider's eyes as a rude and adulterous man. He wasn't very kind, it's true, but he wasn't so bad at all, as we see in the last scene, when he brought his wife's dead body to the street. Here, we see he cared about her. But in Spider's mind he is his opponent, the man who sleeps with his mother, the man who corrupted her.
Well, I hope my post helped you! I hope it isn't very confuse either, it's difficult to explain the movie in our own language, the more it is in english... You should had seen the face of my colleagues when I was explained the movie in class! In the first 5 minutes they look constantly to me with alien's faces!! But then, they all said that they enjoyed the movie!! I swear that I didn't invent nothing, the movie is all based in Freud's theories, you can check it in any good site about psychology! Spider isn't a easy movie, but I adore it! It make us think and realise how complex and sad is the mind of a schizophrenic!
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Spider
Aug 29, 2006 23:30:21 GMT 9.5
Post by Rita, Oh Yes! on Aug 29, 2006 23:30:21 GMT 9.5
That's a brilliant explanation of the movie, Morgause. I think I agree totally. It's a fascinating film - a fascinating application of psychoanalytic theory, really.
I was also thinking of it today along the lines of the superego idea of psycoanalysis. In a way, you could see them all as aspects of Spider himself, with Spider as the ego, perhaps his mother as superego (that being the morals/conscience) and Yvonne as the monstrous Id (Spider's Tyler Durden, if you will). Do you know anything about the Superego theory? I don't know nearly enough to go into much more detail than that (can't put it into words, really), but it's an interesting concept. If that's the case, though, and they're all him, perhaps it is more a film about his relationship with his father (which probably had interesting Fruedian connections, as well).
I was also thinking about playing Yvonne as a performer. I read an interview once (I think it was on the MRAP site) where Miranda says she doesn't like it when people say she's 'good at that sort of role' (evil ones) because what does that peopel think about her? And I was thinking of how I'd try and explain it to her if I had the chance. Thinking that perhaps it is the fact that as viewers it's easy to identify with the Stella's and the Pamela's and the Queen Rosalind's of the world (even if they all have their own emotional issues), but for an audience, it's fascinating to see an actress find a frame of refence for Lady Van Tassel's and Queen Espeth's and Ruth Ellis'. From interviews I've seen with her, she seems to attempt to pinpoint why it is these people do what tyey do - Mab is protecting her religion and trying to save her people, LVT is trying to right the wrongs done to her in a rather subverted way. And that is a really interesting thought when it comes to Yvonne. Because if Miranda tries to find the humanity in the character's she plays, how did she tackle Yvonne? Because Yvonne of course HAS no humanity, no conscience or past fears or anythign to protect, because Yvonne doesn't really exist as anything but a figment of Spider's imagination. That must have been a tremendous challenge to play, because the character is really entirely unsympathetic. To be a real construction of Spider's mind, she has to be.
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