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Post by Kemmellie on Jul 5, 2005 9:05:46 GMT 9.5
Personally, I tend to agree with you about the film. I think it was poorly done and put together. However, as I've only seen it once, I don't want to be too opinionated on it. I did like Mab, however, that could've just been because she was played by Miranda. And possibly, I didn't care as much for it because I prefer the King Arthur myths of forgetting the author's name, but she wrote The Mists of Avalon, and I haven't found an Arthurian/Merlin type movie I've liked better than the TNT version of the book. Still, I'm planning to bid soon on a DVD version of Merlin, not sure which one yet. So maybe I can be more relavant after a second viewing. Oh and thanks for the book recommendation. Next time I hit a bookstore I'm going to look for it. Probably not till I finish my papers though.
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 6, 2005 5:08:52 GMT 9.5
I agree, Merlin could have been put together a heck of a lot better. The whole thing demonizes pagans so much. I've noticed that when you're looking up Queen Mab on Google, all you can come up with are unsatisfactory Shakespeare quotes and random snippets from the movie. Most frustrating. I also found Queen Mab (although I loved her) a very random choice of character. And was it just me, or was Merlin meant to be enchanted by Nimue and taken away or something? Morgane Le Fay was underused as well. I also found Frick a rather lame choice of comic relief. It really didn't lend any credence to the movie at all. They got their Arthurian legends rather mixed up, but some of the characters were interesting. Also, if Mab was really so revered and turned up in the flesh to do magic every now and then it is impossible that all the pagans in Britain would immediately desert and forget her. Arthur was pretty much ignored too! I cannot watch Jurassic Park anymore either. It came on TV and all I kept thinking was "It's Merlin!" I would have loved it if Miranda had played Viviane in Mists of Avalon! For those of you that have not read the book, you should! Anjelica Huston was pretty good as Viviane but I would have loved to have seen what Miranda managed to do with that character!
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Post by Kemmellie on Jul 6, 2005 5:19:33 GMT 9.5
Me too!!! Miranda would have been outstanding. I also agree that Morgane Le Fay was totally under-used and Frick was a bit strange and unneeded for comic relief (sorry to those Frick fans I know are on this site). As for the whole "demonizes pagans" thing, I guess the original article/review that Cara posted addresses that and shows different ways to look at it, however, I think the over-all tone of the movie is a hell of a lot less praising or spiritual than The Mists of Avalon.
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Post by Mick the Frik on Jul 7, 2005 2:26:38 GMT 9.5
Solitas - sorry to hear about what happened on Saturday. My brother - in - law commited suicide, but he did it privately, and he had mental health problems that even though he was 45, he sadly never overcame. Much of what you say - very eloquently I might add - is true, but I feel that if one analyses a spell too much, it will start to loose its' magic. And that, after all, is what Merlin is about - myth and magic. There are historians who dispute the fact that Arthur actually existed, let alone Mab ! But had she raised Merlin, then - yes, I think he would've been different. At the end, when she says that she loves him, I think that she's LYING - don't forget, only moments before, she was shooting arrows and throwing fireballs at him ! Yes - Frik appears to have actually, as it were, gone Christian when he exclaims " May God have mercy on your soul ! " Funny thing for a wee gnome to say. Yes - Mab and Nimue really seem to respect each other. There is another edited-out scene ( oh dear ) in which Merlin tells Nimue of his general policy of revenge. " You needn't do it for my sake, " she replies...............I love the scene at night, in Avalon - it reminds me of the temptation scene in Othello..........But overall, it was Mab/Miranda that made the movie for me, as usual. That much-lamented Gudrun Scene ! Most people I know - friends, relatives etc. LOVED Merlin. Perhaps we have crap tastes....who knows/cares ? Miranda Richardson is always brilliant - no question - but she's been involved in some projects that suffice to say, if they were on fire, I personally would not waste the contents of my bladder to put them out. Sorry - Merlin ain't one of 'em.............
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Post by Kemmellie on Jul 7, 2005 4:06:47 GMT 9.5
How very male of you Mick!!! Not for the peeing so much as for thinking she's "LYING!" Yes indeed, they were fighting and throwing firebolts at each other, however, he started fighting against her in the first place, and she was simply defending the Old Ways like she always did. Besides, families fight...especially with their mothers yet it doesn't necessarily detract or diminish the LOVE, unless they're incredibly estranged or traumatized. I don't believe that Merlin/Mab fall into that category, look at the way he hesitated when she said that. I thought he contemplated turning back in that look he had on his face, you could see how he had to fight in order not to. Yeah, Mab was a bit manipulative, but he was always her hope, and I tend to think that she never really stopped loving him. Besides, if we all walked around with magic, I bet we'd throw bolts instead of words on occassion as well.
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 7, 2005 6:35:19 GMT 9.5
Well.... Mab and Nimue having Xena-and-Gabrielle-esque adventures in Scandinavia involving beer and death metal would have been the easiest solution ! I think she did love him but was trying hard not to towards the end. Not just because he turned against her but because she had to defend the Old Ways over having maternal feelings towards him. I just watched the cartoon "The King and I." I loved it when I was little and now just realised Miranda voices Anna! Yay! What is this Gudrun scene?? I have the DVD version with no special features! Who the heck is Gudrun? Of course I believe Mab had to resort to throwing lightning bolts at Merlin (I would!) and spoiling Mordred. Christianity was killing her and everything around her! Anyway, Merlin!!! Did it not occur to him that by turning his back on the Old Ways, he effectively destroyed the Lady of the Lake, that giant stone dude, the fairy kingdom and loadsa good things as well! Good one, Merlin!
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Post by Christina1981 on Jul 7, 2005 14:44:07 GMT 9.5
Did someone mention of one my ancestral homelands?? Scandinavia, you ask?? Such a BEAUTIFUL place.........SWEDES ROCK!!!....Sorry, just had to get that out there, hehehehe.........the 25% of me that is Swedish jumps for joy anytime someone mentions that area.........hehehehe........I liked Merlin, but I like the plot of Mysts of Avalon better. The book was fabulous!! I didn't care for the girl who played Morgana.........ugh......SO bland........but I did like Joan Allen and her portrayel of Arthur's mum. You are all correct.........Miranda would have done such a good job portraying Anjelica Huston's character.........Has anyone ever read The Last Enchantment by Mary Stewart?? It's another Arthurian book, and it's very good.......it gives more of a historic perspective on the legend, and deals more with the Anglo-Saxon wars........aka......the German and Dutch........hehehe.......... ;D ......Sorry, my history fanaticism pops out from time to time, and I don't mean to give history lectures on this site.
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Post by Kemmellie on Jul 7, 2005 14:54:48 GMT 9.5
No, you should lecture, goodness knows I do from time to time! And I agree with you too, Julianna Marguiles was pretty bland as Morgana and Joan Allen was pretty good too! I haven't read that book but it does sound really good.
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 7, 2005 20:14:21 GMT 9.5
The Mists of Avalon book focusses (sp?) more on Morgane le Fey and her whole point of view, which is refreshing as everyone usually sees her as the "bad guy." But at least Merlin tried to make her more sympathetic just before she dies! The whole Morgan-Frick thing was odd too! Julianna Margulies is quite a bland actress anyway! Did anyone watch the movie King Arthur with Clive Owen and Keira Knightley? Ugh! Awful! I hated Arthur in that movie! He was so boring and uncharismatic! And Merlin was some random hairy dude! And, come to think of it, Miranda would have suited just about any female character in Mists of Avalon but I can't believe they're not having Mab in Merlin's Apprentice!
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Post by Mick the Frik on Jul 7, 2005 22:49:09 GMT 9.5
Well, now ! That got you all going a bit dinnit ? I say this for all of us ; boring people never cause any fuss or bother ! For a movie that some of you didn't seem to like very much, you all seem to " care " a lot. This shows, surely, that it can't be all that bad - but of course, the presence of Miranda has much to do with this......I know, I'm the same. Kemmellie - you're right as usual, I do enjoy a good pee - particularly after a heavy seesion on wine - I drink loads of water to lessen the effects of the alcohol on my liver etc. and to avoid headaches. The trouble is that you have to get rid of it - very popular in the middle of the night! As for accusing females of lying, I deny it! I wouldn't survive very long around here if I did! As a " family " as you put it, I would say that Mab and Merlin are fairly trauma- tized - they haven't spoken a friendly word for about three decades! And, they do not throw fireballs at each other - Merlin does not retaliate - he merely lets her expend her already waning powers - that's what the script says anyway - sly, and not very nice, I agree.......As for having magical powers - with such awesome abilities must come some responsibility - as Mab herself said to Mordred, " You mustn't get carried away my sweet, it shows lack of control." Whether killing Morgan, or throwing Frik against a wall - these are all signs that as a goddess - a superior being - she was, maybe, beginning to lose it a bit? Don't get me wrong - I love her as well as you do! All of which brings me to Solitas' excellent point - maybe both you in a way - are right. If one thinks about it - and saddo that I am I DO think about it - there must have been many times, in say, Arthur's childhood that Mab could have arranged for something nasty to happen to both him and Merlin - yet plainly she never does............I agree that it's a nice thought, that she never stopped loving him. Solitas - I never said it was a fault to over- analyse - at least you do it with feeling and intelligence! Shock - good name - the Gudrun Scene is a scene in the script that was filmed ( she was played by Dylis Lane I believe ) but edited out of the final cut of Merlin. It showed Mab being compassionate to one of her dying priestesses. The subject has probably driven people mad, but most of us are pretty pissed off that it was removed - it showed Mab as really caring about a mortal, as it were. The mighty Queen of the Dance typed it up for all to see, a few pages back............What is this Mysts of Avalon? It sounds really good! And is this true - that Mab ain't in Merlin 2, but Lake Lady is? Important to us, as all of this is - doesn't it pale into relative insignificance, compared to what happened in London a few hours ago? God, isn't it awful, again? Kind regards, hope you and your families near London are OK.................xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 7, 2005 23:16:10 GMT 9.5
I really don't understand why so many people feel justified in making others suffer! I really don't! And living in a Muslim country is even more upsetting! Sometimes you even see people celebrating disasters like these attacks!! Grrr!!
The Mists of Avalon is an excellent book by Marion Zimmer Bradley that follows Morgane le Fey (Morgaine) through her lifetime and the rise and fall of Arthur's reign! It's really worth reading!
Cannot believe they cut out this Gudrun scene! I believe one of the most important assets to a realistic "villain" is showing their humanity and their feelings too and cutting out this scene with Gudrun really doesn't give most people another point of view (Mab's) through which to see the movie! This may not make much sense but hopefully I got my point of view across! So far I have heard nothing of Mab being in Merlin's Apprentice!
Mick, I agree about Mab starting to "lose it." She was all-powerful for so long then, all of a sudden she has to resort to creating a mortal to bring the people back to her meaning she can't even do the job directly anymore! The moment she realises Merlin really never is coming back to her and Mordred has failed too, she just blasted all her remaining powers off. Not really in an attempt to kill Merlin but more out of rage and frustration! Really sad! I'm way too into this topic!
A prayer for those affected by the London attacks xxxxx
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Post by Incapability on Jul 8, 2005 5:03:12 GMT 9.5
I found out about the London attacks in school. My teacher came in with a face as pale as you will ever see one. She asked "Have you heard about London?" We were silent imediately. She send us home. But I stayed to discuss it with some friends, partly because I had to talk, and partly because I did not trust myself to go 5 miles by bike, I felt really dizzy. I am mostly afraid of what Bush will now do. It seems like the perfect excuse to attack Iran as well. One of my friends told me about a guy who wrote a prophesy back in the 80's. He wrote that in the year of 2001, two towers would crash,and in 2006, we would have the 3rd world war. Kinda disrurbing, isn't it? I admit that I'm really scared.
Anyway, back to Merlin, I agree that Mab was losing it at the end, but to me that's a logical consequense. Fighting like that for years and years without achieving anything would do something to anybodies mind, I suppose, and a goddess is no exception.
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 8, 2005 5:24:00 GMT 9.5
If Bush attacks Iran.... I swear that man is going dooown!!! One of my best friends is Iranian and a lotta other friends besides! It was bad enough for my half-Iraqi friend during the last war! Especially since we live so close to it all and the US soldiers and British ones were walking around some of our shopping malls once just after the war.... kinda shocking! I live way too close for comfort! Don't worry Incapa, Schroder won't do much, will he?
I'm trying 2 find more info on Merlin's Apprentice! If Mab does come back, this is gonna start some of us over-analysing her character completely again! Lol, can't wait! But Mab still isn't your stereotypicsl "misunderstood, just wants to be loved" villain. She just got really desperate and resorted to some pretty mean tactics!
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Mirandaholic
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Post by shock on Jul 8, 2005 6:29:21 GMT 9.5
Agree entirely with Solitas I have to say! Escapism into Mirandaland! Watch BBC and get more depressed or discuss Queen Mab of the Fairies' relationship problems with her wizard son? I'm sorry for everybody and my heart goes out to them all!
As for the "seriously shaggable" well... LOL ! I have to say I have worried just abot everyone i know with that! I think part of Mab's rage is fuelled by the fact that Merlin doesn't care. Not just about Mordred but her and magic and the Old Ways. That, I think, is what signifies the end to her! Not even her son cares anymore! If she ain't in MA I am gonna throw such a hissy fit! But the "I am made of pixels" lady is good for a laugh!
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Post by Kemmellie on Jul 8, 2005 7:44:39 GMT 9.5
I agree! That's exactly the way to put it. I also whole-heartedly support that Miranda is oh so shaggable!!! Always!!!! Crap, now I want to watch Merlin but am starting to tighten up with my money...3 week spending spree is taking its toll.
And Mick, Mists of Avalon is also a made-for TNT television movie...you can get it quite easily on dvd or video. It's worth watching as well as reading.
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