|
Post by Anne Mette on May 20, 2007 1:38:14 GMT 9.5
I am sorry to say this about Miranda, but she could never ever do Christine. She doesn't at all have the voice. I didn't even like her singing in her role as Madame Giry.
I am really sad to say it, but they could have done better when it came to the singing, even though Miranda did a great job when it came to the character itself.
I would love to see Michael Crawford as the phantom though. He will always be perfect.
|
|
|
Post by Kathleen on May 20, 2007 5:41:27 GMT 9.5
Michael Crawford rules!!!! He was kind of sexy too, even with all of the nasty makeup on. Miranda as Christine? Um....no lol. She's not a singer. I wouldn't have been opposed to Brightman as Christine, even in her old age, although she's a bad actress lol.
|
|
|
Post by helen on May 20, 2007 7:32:17 GMT 9.5
I am sorry to say this about Miranda, but she could never ever do Christine. She doesn't at all have the voice. I didn't even like her singing in her role as Madame Giry. I am really sad to say it, but they could have done better when it came to the singing, even though Miranda did a great job when it came to the character itself. While Miranda would probably have been good at acting the part of Christine, she wouldn't have been able to sing it. Her singing as Madame Giry was OK, I thought. She managed to keep her singing in tune, which always helps! I'd rather have someone who is a strong actress and a weaker singer than the other way about. Re Michael Crawford: there was a petition before the film was made to have him play The Phantom. I like Crawford's singing, but I've never seen him act, so I can't comment on that.
|
|
|
Post by avalon on May 20, 2007 8:00:46 GMT 9.5
totally agree with Helen, when you have such a tremendous scenic presence, for a avant garde version of the phanton in the 80 s a soprano wasn t a "must have".
talking about movies and not the musical about the phantom, the mute version about I was talking in past with HELEN. there was no singing of course and the effect of the movie is paralising ,splendid, the scene of the "masquerade" is exact as in the 20 s film,WELL A LITTLE LESS CREEPY.
with my knowledge of singing I can put my hans on fire,Miranda WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT CHRISTNE, rehersals and voila. beauty & talent. MOST SINGRS USE A TECNIQUE THE RESULT A COLD FROZEN PERFORMANCE SUCH AS EMMY S. YOU NEED SOMEONE ABLE TO BRIGHT BEYOND HER VOICE.
WHICH IS THE POINT HAVING A GREAT SINGER IN A MOTION PICTURE IF THERE S NO THE MAGICK AND CRAFT REQUIRED TO BRING UP A MEGA PRODUCTION .YOU NEED A REAL ACTRESS.
MIRANDA
|
|
|
Post by Anne Mette on May 20, 2007 19:13:21 GMT 9.5
I never said that you don't need a real actress, but you need a real singer also, and Miranda is NOT a real singer. I swear, if Miranda played Christine, I would throw the dvd into the fireplace.
Miranda is an AMAZING actress in so many ways, but she is certainly not a singer, and she could never do Christine. I sing, and I know it. Christine is HARD to do!
I don't even think that Emmy could do Christine the way I wanted! Her voice is FAR too weak! Like the title song in the end... When Sarah sings that, I get goose bumps, but when Emmy sings it, I just frown and skip to the next scene.
So... If not even Emmy (who has been singing on the opera since she was just a little girl) can't do it, Miranda can't either. Yes, Miranda is great, but not that great.
|
|
|
Post by Kathleen on May 21, 2007 6:11:41 GMT 9.5
I think I'd prefer voice over acting. It was meant for stage after all, and people far away can't really see someone's acting. If you ever look at the cast you'll always see a second girl as Christine "in certain performances". That's probably because the main girl is so worn out. It's not an insult to Miranda to say that she can't do everything. Maybe if the movie had no singing, but what would be the point of that. When I was a little girl my parents saw it in Toronto and brought me back the cassette which I listened to 24/7 until they took me to see it, so I think voice is more important for me. If some of you want acting over singing, fine...whatever floats your boat.
|
|
|
Post by avalon on May 21, 2007 6:17:16 GMT 9.5
I do love you girls you got brilliant points of view. ;D
I go for a pop version of the phantom for Miranda I mean when she was in her 20 s, for stage.
ARRANGEMENTS SPECIALLY FOR HER AND ALL THE CAST INCLUDED AL POP ARTIST NOT LYRICS.
FOR MY SCREEN VERSION I ve already gave my opinion GAROU & PATRICIA KAAS. BEAUTE BEAUTE!!
|
|
|
Post by Anne Mette on May 21, 2007 16:16:32 GMT 9.5
I would like to see Jennifer Ellison as Christine actually, but still, I never think that a pop version would be any popular either. Pepople would have loathed it because it wouldn't be the Phantom we know. I think that the original book is amazing and fabulous, but not for a 'pop' version. It would kind of be too unserious and funny and it wouldn't hold the traditions that we love so much about PotO.
|
|
|
Post by QueenOfTheDance on May 23, 2007 0:10:33 GMT 9.5
*Jumps in* Interesting discussion... I completely agree with Avalon and Helen that it is more important to have a actress in a role than a singer...I have seen so many blank-faced, unemotional people in musicals who sing like angels. I think surely the important thing is to get the song across, get the story and lyrics of the song across with heart and feeling than to sing it flawlessly with nothing behind it. Of course, in a perfect world, they would be able to do both!! But sadly, I have seen few people who can....Idina Menzel, Daniel Evans, John Barrowman and Ruthie Henshall are good examples of those who can though. I remember when I saw Rent in the West End there was a remarkable man playing Collins - Mykal Rand...and he did have a remarkable voice too. But when he sang 'I'll Cover You reprise' one night he literally was cracking notes and going off-key all the time....but the reason for this? Pure emotion. And I would rather see someone sing a song completely off-key as long as they were feeling it. I don't think Miranda should have played Christine, simply because as lovely as the role of Christine is, it's just not a Miranda-type role...what I love about her is that she's never the romantic interest, the simpering victim...she plays the interesting roles with a bit of bite to them. Saying that, I'm sure SHE could bring plenty of bite to any leading lady role there is. I also agree that Christine IS a singing role (not to sell the part short) I don't dislike Emmy in the film really, although I know a lot of people find her blank. I just think she's very sweet, nothing remarkable, but a likeable performance. There are a lot of ACTRESSES I can think of that would be a lot better though. But then we go right back into the singing/acting debate again!! I like Miranda's singing. It is the singing voice of an actor. I'm really happy that the director chose actors over singers, as the prformances of Miranda, Simon Callow, Gerard Butler and Ciaran Hinds are all sublime...and yet none of them are singers as such. As for Jennifer Ellison...well, Joel Schumacher...everyone can make mistakes. I never seen such an appalling performance in my life (on film) No offence to anyone who likes her, but I think she makes so many basic acting mistakes in it, it's unreal. Just watch her in 'Angel Of Music' and notice where she's looking half the time??? Not at Christine whom she's meant to be concerned about, that's for sure! I've never seen anyone turn their head so many times in an attempt to 'act'... Sorry, I'll stop spitting bile now She definitely looks good, and that covers a multitude of sins, obviously xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|
|
|
Post by Anne Mette on May 23, 2007 1:03:33 GMT 9.5
I didn't like Jennifer Ellison in PotO either, but who else? There wasn't really any good, british actors to do that role anyway at the time.
In musicals like PotO, I really really don't think that the acting is most important. I hope I don't offend you guys now, and I am not trying to be smart or anything, but I think that many of you really just saw the film because Miranda was in it.
I saw the film because I love the musical and I have heard the songs since I was in my mum's belly. I didn't even know that Miranda was in it till I saw it.
In these musicals, whichever musical you watch, acting is not a matter of life or death, because if you don't get the goosebumps and get lost in the music, then there is no point in making a muical at all.
So, in my opinion, singing is more important, because that is what makes the musical and to be honest, I would rather just take the original London Cast of PotO and place it in ALW and Joel Shumacker's film because they can do things NONE of the actors in the film could.
|
|
|
Post by QueenOfTheDance on May 23, 2007 6:20:55 GMT 9.5
Ok, that's fair enough, each to their own, as they say!
I feel very differently about musical theatre...again, not to offend, because I respect your opinion... but I think in any form of theatre that is telling a story about human emotions, which most musicals do, that the acting is extremely important. Because how can you FEEL it if you don't believe in what these people are saying?
I guess it depends on what you look for, obviously you look for the singing and music and that's fantastic...I love musicals, but I don't tend to look at them as a genre in particular...I look for things to inspire me, whether it involves music or not, whether it be a gritty drama or an uplifting piece...what I'm trying to say is that I view acting as acting...whether it be through song or speech.
I believe that the acting in Phantom is just as important as the singing. And like you, I was brought up on the music of Phantom, and many musicals. I adore musicals.
I admit there are some musicals which give the genre a bad name, the fluffy jazz-hands type musicals...I tend to steer clear of them...I prefer the ones with a little depth. And that's what makes Phantom or Rent, or any Sondheim musical, so special. The feeling behind the words that are sung.
But this is my humble opinion, as I said, it just depends what you are looking for.
But I do think that however you come to a film, whether it be through Miranda or not, every opinion is equally valid.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|
|
|
Post by helen on May 23, 2007 6:42:36 GMT 9.5
I admit there are some musicals which give the genre a bad name, the fluffy jazz-hands type musicals...I tend to steer clear of them...I prefer the ones with a little depth. And that's what makes Phantom or Rent, or any Sondheim musical, so special. The feeling behind the words that are sung. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I'm the same, although I do admit to having a little soft spot for Mamma Mia. I'm still yet to see a Sondheim musical, but I'm really looking forward to the movie of Sweeny Todd comng out. Which Sondheim shows would you recommend, Fran? I thought Jennifer Ellison was OK in Phantom. I saw her in Chicago on stage a few months ago. She was awful! She was far, far to young for the role and her singing and acting were pretty weak. Good dancer though.
|
|
|
Post by QueenOfTheDance on May 23, 2007 6:53:47 GMT 9.5
I haven't seen Mamma Mia, so i can't comment on it...It certainly seems in a different class to We Will Rock You though! Eurghhh...
Sondheim...oh god...I could write you a book about Sondheim...he's a genius, pure and simple. There are dvd recordings available of Into The Woods (with Bernadette Peters in) and Company (with Adrian Lester) and they are two of his finest in my opinion, so perhaps try and get hold of them. Ooh maybe they have bits on youtube?? I'll have a look. If you like I could upload you a few (audio) songs from Sunday In The Park With George and those two..and Sweeney if you want?
I hope Sweeney will be good...I can't see how it wouldn't be with that cast and director, though. It is a gorgeous musical. Thinking of Johnny Depp doing some of those songs, I get a shiver down my spine.
(Hee, Helen, you notice we always end up talking about musicals somehow??)
My brother saw Jen Ellison in Chicago and thought the same as you. Arggghhh how I hate gimmicky casting.
What's next on your list to see in London? Did you see Evita in the end by the way?
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
|
|
|
Post by helen on May 23, 2007 7:07:27 GMT 9.5
Nothing wrong with chatting about musicals, Fran!!! I'm not getting to see Evita. My friend and I went to Wicked at Christmas and planned to see Evita on our next trip. Unfortunately, our next trip is next month and Evita closes this Saturday If only we'd done it the other way round! Well, at least I got to see Idina Menzel play Elphie. My parents saw Evita, though and loved it. My mum didn't like Elena Roger though. She didn't like her voice. She also said that Philip Quast was excellent. I have heard that it's touring, so I'll try to catch it then. On our next trip, I'm introducing my friend to the wonderful world of Les Mis (4th time for me and counting) and she also wants to see Mamma Mia, so we're seeing that too. I saw it in Edinburgh, so it'll be nice to see how the West End production differs. As for next on my list, I want to see The Drowsy Chaperone, but I'm not a fan of Elaine Paige, so I'll wait until she leaves, I think. I have also heard a rumour that Rent is being revived, and after everything that you've said about it, I'll be going to see that! I'm going to go to see 42nd Street on tour and The Producers if I can get a cheap ticket. That's why I went to see Chicago. I got a student standby seat for £12.50. I'd love to see a Sondheim musical. I'd love to see Follies. I heard there was a small production at the Landor House at the end of last year. I was gutted I missed it. I absolutely adore the song Losing My Mind. I was going to go to see Sunday in the Park last year, but I went to Avenue Q instead. If you've not seen it, I recommend it. It's probably the funniest musical I've ever seen.
|
|
|
Post by Anne Mette on May 23, 2007 7:22:01 GMT 9.5
Oh dear lord Evita is amazing and I saw it three times when it was here in town! They even had a local star play her and she was so good she is touring all of Norway! I still love the original Evita the best though. Or not the original but the woman who originally played Evita. Elaine Paige! She is a fabulous singer! And just speaking of musicals... The Sound of Music, Moulin Rouge, Mary Poppins, Sunset Boulevard! WOW! I love musicals more than I do well of... But over to the discussion again... I think that song is most important, yes, but for those who sing of you also, you know that you can't just sing a tone and think that you are great to hit the right note. No... Music is about feelings and a good singer make you feel the music and feel the song. That is why I think that that is so much more important than having an academy award winning actress or actor in a musical, because sure, I love a bit of good acting, but also, if you are a good singer, you can make people believe it even if you are the best actor on the planet or not. That is what I am trying to say. Musicals are more than just songs placed in a history. You need to know how to feel music and you need to actually know what a crecendo is. I think I am really right at this (because I am arrogant )! I think that I can honestly say that I know a LOT about music overall as I sing, dance and play many different instruments at a high level... And for me, music is all about feelings and magic, so I might have a TOTALLY different point of view than everyone else, but I still think that I am right. I mean... Try to watch Pearl Harbour or something without music! Hello! It is weird...
|
|